THE PATTERN CONTAINER – CONVERSATION TRANSCRIPT 

 

LINDA LOPPA

Hello, Minna. Hello Adele. So good to see you together. Same haircut, same style, same ideas, same, I don’t know, energy. I feel there is a good connection here. Adele, we know each other from Florence, you did that great performance in our Villa Favard, it was 2015 and since then we lost each other because we were too busy.

 

I met Minna true Dobrila Denegri who has made that interesting catalogue ‘Transfashional’. Adele, in that performance activity what phase of your life are you in? 

 

ADELE VARCOE

Oh, always performing the everyday life of fashion. For me, I think what keeps me in fashion is because I don’t quite understand it. So I keep questioning it and testing; I’m really curious about how it affects us socially and emotionally. And the kinds of, I guess, patterns you could call them, they do come around, but in terms of relationships and interaction. I think fashion is something that we all participate in every day and I want to know how it just impacts our lives and how it gets into our brains. 

 

LINDA LOPPA

Minna, I guess you have the same questions on whether it is a collection, whether it’s, an installation, it’s about the female body or the body. And those questions remain as a red thread through your collections. So please, speak about the evolution in your work. 

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

I first have to say the same thing as Adele, that I really don’t get fashion. It frustrates me and it confuses me and it makes me extremely happy at times, but I don’t get it. So I’m also really just exploring and experimenting around the questions that I have around the whole system. But my project with the body started when I found the sociologist called Mary Douglas, who said something about, we all have two different bodies: an intimate body, which is the one we actually have and we maybe don’t show to too many people. And we have the social body that is the one we – in different ways – present to the world, through clothing or working out or corsets or whatever it might be. And I took her words out of context and made them mine. So it started with working with the clashes of what we have and what we want to have and what other people are expecting from us, but I’m also very interested in the whole system around production and consumption, which I think is just crazy. 

 

So actually, a year ago, before COVID-19, I started working on a project called “under pressure” where I’m squeezing stuff into through, a press machine. It’s very well known in the Nordic countries, it’s called a ‘mangle’, but it’s like you roll stuff in, under pressure and it make creases. And so, I work with that pressure that we’re all under and the pressure is unfortunately just getting worse. 

 

LINDA LOPPA

How do we handle the pressure, Adele?

 

ADELE VARCOE

I think there have been elements of pressure. We did a pretty intensive stage during full lockdown, but it’s also been incredible, the sense of community and how, I guess, the pressure has brought people together. Almost like Minna, I was looking at your work with the creases and folds. It’s almost like, kind of moving in and out of those dark and light spaces, but I feel like we’re doing it more together. 

 

LINDA LOPPA

So, there is a positive side to all this misery. Do you feel that you’re farther away from the fashion system, further out of it, or do you want to go in and make a statement? 

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

I’ve been going back and forth. I started outside of it. I actually never went to fashion school. I went to clothes making and then textile art school. So I’ve never done the fashion thing. That’s why I’m really confused because I’ve never learned how to do it. So I’ve been trying to be in the system and fight from within. And I think I still do, but I’ve been taking a step back because I tried to do the production and everything, and it’s too stressful; making collections, all the money, all the time, all the logistics around it. So now I’m working more organically again. So I think, again, I’m more outside the system. I’m not sure I was ever really in it. I’m not sure to be honest.

 

LINDA LOPPA

But it’s a decision to take, I think designers are taking decisions like, no, this is not for me. I’ll do it at my own rhythm and with my own identity and personality and integrity. And I think that’s the most important thing that is going to happen. As an artist, do you have the same decisions to take Adele or are you more free?

 

ADELE VARCOE

Well, no, I think there is a system within being an artist as well. But I was just thinking, Minna, about what you said about the fashion system, like being out of it. I personally feel like that’s kind of hard to do because I guess I’m someone who thinks that if we have clothes on our bodies, we are playing a role in the system of fashion. I guess being an artist as well. And I think I’m trying to be part of it, but also try to step out of it. I feel like it’s a system that maybe we’re all in and it can actually be hard to escape or step out of to reflect on. It was more about being an artist. But for me, I guess these kinds of things, trying to understand fashion is probably my primary question at the moment. But I do feel that within art there’s also a system making it work. 

 

LINDA LOPPA

You have the art gallery, you have the art fairs, you have the art business, there is a system. But I think you can easily avoid it. So, I think there is a new movement that is going to happen, and we are part of that. I think I’m very happy that finally, we can talk again to each other, without talking through our press agents. 

 

ADELE VARCOE

I think also, I’m feeling more of a sense of maybe hierarchies that are being potentially flattened.

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

Well, I’m hoping for that, as well.

 

ADELE VARCOE

I’m hoping for that too.

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

Because I’ve had a really great autumn actually in this horrible situation, because I’ve been part of a takeover, an artist takeover with just women and non-binary artists taking over a huge space in the posh central areas of Stockholm. Because so many places are empty because everybody is going bankrupt and people have to move out and we would never be able to be at this address. But this amazing woman called Paola Bjäringer, made it all happen. I would say what you see there is that this crisis is hitting on all levels. So also the ones with the posh places in the posh areas are going bankrupt. And then we can sneak in there and do something else. And I think, at least something is happening to the expected hierarchies. And I hope that will continue.

 

ADELE VARCOE

‘Cause I also wonder if that’s got something to do with communicating online as well. I feel like, here we are and we’re in a virtual environment. But in some ways, I just wonder how that shift, that idea of hierarchy, if it is, you know, for sort of like avatars. I feel like these virtual environments also created lots of opportunities to connect. And I think there was a question from Linda that was – let me go back through my notes – I think it was about if we can connect or interact more often with other cultures. I think the key word was just that connection, that word, connection. And if it is locally or globally.

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

I think it needs to be both. I think this is amazing, we sit in different parts of the world and have this discussion and we have very much the same thoughts. But I also think the takeover I was part of, locally you have to find each other and build like strong, joined forces and help each other out and find spots to take over, to get stronger together. So locally you can do that because I think that human interaction is so, so important. And then also the global, to feel connected to each other, more from more far away.

 

ADELE VARCOE

I guess from that idea as well, I was just thinking – what happens locally, if you can’t find your tribe? If you are someone who might not find people locally that share similar ideas.

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

It’s very sad. That must happen though.

 

ADELE VARCOE

I was just thinking about how, I guess online and virtual spaces can kind of bring people together or bring you closer to people who might be more like you.

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

Yeah, but that’s the great thing. The options, I mean. That’s perfect because we are all different and we also need different things, I guess.

 

ADELE VARCOE

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah

 

LINDA LOPPA

I think that more and more the designer is part of an artistic community, because of the photography, the film, the performance. Everybody is now performing, dancing on TikTok, doing films, instead of fashion shows. So do you think it’s a movement that will go on? That the performance is going to take over the fashion show?

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

I hope so, because I think a fashion show is wasted if you don’t do some sort of performing act. I mean, a performance can be so much, to stage, to invite people into your brain and your universe. Because the clothes, as soon as they leave the catwalk they’re gonna be taken out of context in PR, in magazines. People wearing them in ways you never maybe intended, which is also great. But this is the time you have to show people what you were actually thinking. And you can say something and you can start a discussion or just fantasize among people. I just think it’s a way to just send, looks like cho cho cho .. I don’t know, excess, it doesn’t say that much to me.

 

ADELE VARCOE

I quite like, as you know Linda, participatory performances where the audience are involved or immersed in the show and they feel something themselves, and it might be through an encounter with a performer or it might be through an encounter with another audience member. I think fashion for me is a feeling. It’s something that we feel rather than see. And I’m always interested to try and bring that to life.

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

I love that about your work, the feeling and that is about something we’re always in and how does it affect us? I think it’s very interesting.

 

ADELE VARCOE

Speaking of the catwalk and performances, we have a main shopping street in Melbourne and during the fashion festival, I took a whole pile of buckets down to that shopping street. And we put buckets down either side of the road and the people doing their shopping were walking up and down, like it was a catwalk. And then the people sitting on the buckets were just clapping and cheering. But it was the idea of looking at ourselves and our community, to inform about what we wear. You know, in Australia we might look to Europe. But, I guess I was saying that, hey, I think it’s what we wear as a community that informs. What’s on our bodies. Makes sense, I guess bringing it local and everyday.

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

There’s so much force in that, instead of always thinking that the fashion centre is somewhere else or that, to be real, you have to do it in Paris, or you have to connect to people in Paris or in London. I mean, it’s like so much happening if you just start digging and if you start connecting, you can do so much locally, I think. And then you can make it to the rest of the world digitally.

 

ADELE VARCOE

I mean do you feel that in your city? Linda where you are, I mean, it could be considered a bit of a fashion hotspot. How is that for you? I mean, where do you look? Are you looking locally or globally?

 

LINDA LOPPA

The 23rd of February my life changed, because my husband said, I’m thinking that it’s not a good idea if we go to Paris for the fashion shows. I had all the invitations. I was in the LVMH jury for young designers. So I had a nice programme. And he said, not this time, my girl. COVID-19 is there and we can’t travel. And I unpacked my clothes and I’ve put them back in my wardrobe. We went for a walk and we went for a nice dinner. 

 

I’m different, I don’t care to be there on the first or the second row of a fashion show. I don’t need all those people and queuing and waiting and see that waste of money that is useless. And so I started writing the new fashion containers in March and April. And that’s exactly what you were saying now, it’s connecting locally and make it globally with the digital. I’m happy with life today, with you, talking about the future and finding new patterns. I feel very in tune with myself. 

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

That’s so nice.

 

ADELE VARCOE

That’s so nice. Yeah, that is really nice. Yeah, wow. I mean, at first you had your suitcase packed, you were going to Paris. Was that hard for you? To resist, the desire … because I think there’s something about fashion that is kind of, you know – it’s hot, it’s new. Does it kind of bring a desire? Was it hard for you to unpack your clothes and stay in Florence?

 

LINDA LOPPA

It was hard because I worked hard to have all those invitations, you know, the Balenciaga invitation etc. etc. And then I made a choice. It was five minutes, maybe difficult. And then we went for a nice dinner. I took a glass of wine and before going to bed, I said, my husband is right. 

 

ADELE VARCOE

Yeah, it’s true. And it’s interesting how quickly you can actually step out of something. Because I guess for you, you’re just part of it, you know. Going to the shows, and it’s something you just do and you don’t have time to reflect, and it’s nice. And it is like really cool happenings and you meet cool people, but it’s also quit, as I see it’s stressful. A lot of money and just more about showing your face so people know you were there and then you can just sort of run to the next. And it’s interesting to hear from you how quickly that can just go – puf! And even now the people are showing stuff digitally. And you’re like, I’m not very interested. It’s really, really, really interesting because I think that a lot of people have a hard time letting go of the stuff that used to be and how it is now. And of course this situation we’re in, it contains a lot of sorrow and a lot of grief. But you can also, like you did, all of a sudden you see stuff in a different way. And you can try to take that somewhere, as you are really doing with these conversations.

 

LINDA LOPPA

Yes, it was not so difficult. And especially the days after we went for a walk with a beautiful weather, I went to young people who made music at the Academy of Music here in Florence. And that’s fantastic.

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

Perfect, perfect.

 

LINDA LOPPA

Adele what Is your next performance? 

 

ADELE VARCOE

Oh, well just following on from what you’re saying, Linda. I guess for me being in lockdown, it was a really good time just to step back and reflect. And I’ve been doing some writing, I’m actually working on a children’s kind of graphic novel about fashion at the moment. So I’m just trying to distill some of the more complex ideas into really simple terms. But I’m working on another performance for next year, but it’s just been really nice to sit and reflect and be like, okay, well, is fashion important to me? What are my priorities? And I’m like, yes, fashion is important to me. I think it’s so important how it affects every individual and how we perceive ourselves. It’s massive. I think fashion is a massive thing that plays a huge role in our lives. And I feel like my work is not done there yet.

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

No it’s not.

 

LINDA LOPPA

Luckily for us. Are you going to do a project together?

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

Oh, that’d be something let’s talk about that! Yeah. Interesting. It’s really interesting. Can we do that? Both locally, but then it sort of merges.

 

ADELE VARCOE

Is this your hidden agenda, Linda?

 

LINDA LOPPA

I mean, you both, you have so much in common, it’s unbelievable. 

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

We need you Linda.

 

LINDA LOPPA

Yeah, yeah I’m there, I’m there. The world needs your energy and your integrity. So keep on doing those, performances and those, whatever it might be – because that’s the openness in your minds, you don’t have a precise goal. So you have both that inner feeling that you are doing the right thing. I guess. Last word Adele.

ADELE VARCOE

Oh, really a last word. Oh my gosh. I need time to think about this. Wait, let me look at all my notes. There are so many things I wanted to say!

 

LINDA LOPPA

I had another question. What about other cultures? Are we engaged enough with all cultures? That’s also a point for me. We’re in our little home, in our little country, in our little neighbourhood. But we’re not engaged.

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

There are so many, again, we’re going to hierarchies. I mean, the world, as it has evolved through hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years in where it’s like who’s up here and who’s down there and who is sort of taking advantage of who? And I mean, it’s such a horrible mess to be honest. And there’s nothing we can just do like this. So I think engaging in different cultures, listening to each other and doing collabs. Now I think it’s like some countries, if we would say first-world countries thinking they’re collaborating or something with another country, but they sort of take over that culture. I don’t know. But I think it’s extremely important that we would start to talk, to just talk more to each other and listen to each other and see what can come out of that.

 

LINDA LOPPA

Decolonize, we think we have the knowledge for fashion and it’s absolutely not all. 

 

ADELE VARCOE

Yes.

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

Well, I have exactly this hope. Sort of what you’ve been going through, Linda, that we start to see, looking at how we used to live our lives. And it’s a lot from there. We really need to get back like hugging and meeting the loved ones. All of that is, I think that’s the really horrible part of this. But I’m hoping that people could just have a little bit of a wake-up instead of being like, I can’t do this anymore. Be like, but how important was that to me? Did it make sense? Just trying to maybe realize that a lot of stuff was just a facade and just stuff we do to keep up appearances and just skip all that. And that’s my biggest hope I think.

 

LINDA LOPPA

Beautiful.

 

ADELE VARCOE

My biggest hope is a feeling of empowerment and awareness and transparency.

 

ADELE VARCOE

What’s yours. Linda. 

 

LINDA LOPPA

Mine is connecting, connecting with as many people as possible and bringing them together like now. So you’ve made my day. Thank you, Minna, thank you Adele. It was wonderful to have you both and I hope to see you soon, hugging for real.

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

Yeah. That’d be great. Otherwise let’s meet digitally again.

 

LINDA LOPPA

Perfect. And let’s write and maybe we make a book out of this.

 

ADELE VARCOE

Fabulous.

 

MINNA PALMQVIST

Take care, both of you.

 

LINDA LOPPA

Wonderful day. Bye-bye thank you.